... meshes, and infinity fabric) impact this measure of per-core performance… RISC-V could implement an x86 compatibility mode like apple, but for users like myself though, I don’t really see much benefit in emulating x86 code and I suspect most people who find RISC-V appealing aren’t that interested in emulating x86 either. I agree we are unlikely to see any movement on this although there are plenty of technical people who are interested. I tested the Apple and AMD CPUs both single-threaded and multithreaded when checking power efficiency. But when we factor in power efficiency, things get crazy. Literally, it measures the rate of computation that can be delivered by a computer for every watt of power consumed. Getting the raw performance scores was considerably easier than getting truly comparable power readings. I’m not getting into whataboutary or having words put in my mouth and as I think we’ve covered everything this is probably a good place to end discussion. SANTA CLARA, Calif., Nov. 10, 2020 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- AMD (NASDAQ: AMD) today launched a new product in its high-performance Embedded processor family, the AMD Ryzen™ Embedded V2000 Series processor. While we've seen a screenshot of an 8,200 CoreMark score, and we've seen a 69mW power reading, it's not entirely clear that the power reading was representative of the entire benchmark run. At the maximally power-efficient 3GHz clockrate, the Micro Magic CPU scores about one-fourth the CoreMarks of either the Ryzen 4700u or Apple M1. Benchmark results and pricing is reviewed daily. With both M1 and this there is a reason for healthy skepticism, even if the results ultimately prove out in the end. The Snapdragon 888 also offers more energy efficient than the Snapdragon 865, with a 25% improvement in the CPU's performance-per-watt and 20% more … You’ve explained some of the detailed issues which helps but there’s two issues here. They add one or more layers of printed SolarPV to conventional PV to boost performance. Ars Technica summarises and looks at the various claims made by Micro Magic about their RISC-V core. It may be RISC-V benefits from some extentions to facilitate co-existance of OS and portability. WIRED Media Group It's a deliberately simplified CPU benchmarking tool released by the Embedded Microprocessor Benchmark Consortium, intended to be as platform-neutral and simple to build and use as possible. Sign up or login to join the discussions! I’m a bit sceptical of RISC-V as it seems more of an American thing, Oh china is biting pretty hard on RISC-V as well. I’m just happy being able to broach the subject. It’s surprisingly difficult to convince people to detach themselves from preconceived opinions and look at the data sometimes. I’m sure someone will find a use. Implementations are left to implementors. Micro Magic intends to offer its new RISC-V design to customers using an IP licensing model. Sorry but I don’t get what you are saying. Putting words in your mouth, huh? By Paul Alcorn 27 November 2020. Some scepticism and expertise is required and not everyone has the training or time or inclination for this. 10 Best SSDs you can buy today Gadget Flow. For a broader context there are software versus fastpath issues where a given OpenGL function may have been fully or only partially implemented in typically faster graphics card hardware . I think this really needs a technical vision articulating examining what is and isn’t possible then a deeper look at the gotchas and whether vendors will cooperate or not, and the use and abuse of patents and copyright to stop an advance in this area. So calling conventions, etc aren’t defined. Later the same week, Micro Magic announced the same CPU could produce over 8,000 CoreMarks at 3GHz while consuming only 69mW of power. If we use the EMBC's published single-core score for the Snapdragon 820 along with Anandtech's single-core CPU power test result, we get about 16,000 CoreMarks per watt. “World’s best CPU performance per watt”: Testing conducted by Apple in October 2020 using preproduction 13-inch MacBook Pro systems with Apple M1 chip and 16GB of RAM. Higher results in the chart represent better value in terms of more performance per dollar. The Snapdragon 820 isn't world-class anymore, but it's no slouch, either—it was the processor in the US version of Samsung's Galaxy S7. With that said, it would be an enormous undertaking to port—for example—an entire smartphone ecosystem, such as commercial Android, to a new architecture. One AMD Ryzen Embedded V2000 Series processor can provide twice the multi-threaded performance-per-watt, up to 30 percent better single-thread CPU performance and up to 40 percent better graphics performance over the previous generation. For some or all of this to work via a fastpath or slowpath (could be hardware or software) the overall concepts and systems and regulations which enable this need to be worked out and specified. Even aside from hardware considerations like GPU and LTE modem, creating an entire Android phone based on a non-ARM architecture is likely to be a much bigger undertaking. I don’t know enough about the engineering to know what is covered by patent versus trade secret to know how much or little they can open up and this is before international security and trade wars are considered. Ad Choices. However somebody obviously does have to care about this stuff and many of us here on osnews do find these things important. PC Apps; New RISC-V CPU claims recordbreaking efficiency per watt. New RISC-V CPU claims recordbreaking performance per watt, https://www.nextplatform.com/2020/08/21/alibaba-on-the-bleeding-edge-of-risc-v-with-xt910/, https://nequalsonelifestyle.com/2020/12/06/mm-riscv-vs-rock64-arm/, ARM Takes Aim at Intel, Sends Cortex A9 to GlobalFoundries, Google, Nvidia Bringing Android to Tegra Chips, Private Computer Museum Offers Glimpse Into the Past, Windows XP and Red Hat Linux Hardware Boxes, [Updated with response from Apple] Macs are a privacy nightmare, Working from home at 25MHz: You could do worse than a Quadra 700. I am not saying anything about politics, but their policy of favoring home grown processors internally is creating great incentive to be competative. https://www.nextplatform.com/2020/08/21/alibaba-on-the-bleeding-edge-of-risc-v-with-xt910/. I’m quite confused that this is your response to me. Itani - December 4, 2020. But when we look at M1, we see a massive 3x improvement in performance per watt. As for whether it is good for all things all the time we don’t really know so comparing them to currents major CPUs isn’t an exact comparison. PassMark Software has delved into the thousands of benchmark results that PerformanceTest users have posted to its web site and produced nineteen Intel vs AMD CPU charts to help compare the relative speeds of the different processors. Performance per watt on Micro Magic's new CPU is eye-popping as compared to typical systems. I benchmarked it against the PineBook Pro. I’m old enough to remember scenes on the news of Chinese wearing Mao suits and going everywhere on bicycle. 232. Switzerland recently had its own scandal when it turned out one Swiss supplier of backdoored security products was owned by US and German intelligence. I hear what you are saying, but I think you are looking for RISC-V to be more than it is, and that it wants to be. That is is. But let me try and summarize as best as I can for you: It’s a modular instruction set architecture that can describe everything from an 8 bit to a 128 bit computer, but the well defined ISAs are for 16, 32, an 64 bit systems. o New Willow Cove CPU core with significant frequency uplift leveraging 10nm SuperFin technology advancements. Yield per watt is one of the elements that marketers commonly use to promote their products as a performance metric. The Linux operating system already supports RISC-V architecture—so for headless or near-headless controllers that simply need to deliver decent performance paired with extreme power efficiency, Micro Magic's new CPU is likely most of the way there. But I still don’t think you get it, RISC-V is a ISA, just an ISA. For people with use case and power envelopes which match the capabilities either would be useful if Arstechnica tests are accurate. https://nequalsonelifestyle.com/2020/12/06/mm-riscv-vs-rock64-arm/. All of this sounds very exciting—Micro Magic's new prototype is delivering solid smartphone-grade performance at a fraction of the power budget, using an instruction set that Linux already runs natively on. Exactly! So I can see this chip stuff in the lower power market becoming very dominant, provided the applications can keep the processors cool. I don't have access to anything nearly as fine-grained as turbostat for the Apple M1, so for that platform I took whole-system power draw at the wall and just plain subtracted the reading at desktop idle from the sustained reading while under test. New RISC-V CPU claims recordbreaking performance per watt Thom Holwerda 2020-12-04 Hardware 26 Comments Ars Technica summarises and looks at the various claims made by Micro Magic about their RISC-V core. I’m sure there will plenty of opportunity to revisit this in the future. RISC-V is one of the ways they are doing that, along with RISC-V, MIPS, ARM, and x86. The 5nm M1 system-on-a-chip (SoC) features an 8-core CPU, which the company claims delivers the best performance-per-watt of any processor on the market, and up to … Where the balance lies is a question between RISC-V, OS vendors and IHVs, and consumers and I think there is some scope for discussion. Micro Magic Inc.—a small electronic design firm in Sunnyvale, California—has produced a prototype CPU that is several times more efficient than world-leading competitors, while retaining reasonable raw performance. with 103 posters participating, including story author. Qualcomm says the Snapdragon 888 boasts three times more performance per watt over the previous generation, as well as 26 tera operations per second (TOPS). There is also the open source Hummingbird processors that are aiming at the Cortex-M space. Well you can see some of that discussed in the FAQ, and you can get into the weeds by looking at the implementer’s guide. Extraordinary claims requite extraordinary evidence, and I feel like some vague photos just doesn’t to the trick of convincing me. Seeed studios sells various versions of them (and a rather cheap FPGA board if you want to experiment yourself). 0. We need to give implementers the freedom to experiment and innovate, and RISC-V gives them a compatible ISA to do that. It’s the same with politics. As a FOSS user, what I want most is a very consistent and reliable boot strapping process where the owner is in control with no proprietary dependencies. To do so, one needs a computer or a laptop, and most computers in the world are powered by either an Intel/AMD CPU. Micro Magic has provided figures—and in one case, a screenshot—for performance at 3GHz, 4.25GHz, and 5GHz. With modern backend cloud implementations being available in the PS5 for some cases the fastpath will be over an external network.). The simplicity of the design—RISC-V requires roughly one-tenth the opcodes that modern ARM architecture does—further simplifies manufacturing concerns, since RISC-V CPU designs can be built in shuttle runs, sharing space on a wafer with other designs. This specifically avoids most effects of system differences in memory, I/O, and so forth. The world’s fastest CPU core in low-power silicon; The best CPU performance per watt of any computer chip ; The world’s fastest integrated graphics in a personal computer; Breakthrough machine learning performance with the Apple Neural Engine; The M1 chip is available in the new MacBook Air, 13-inch MacBook Pro, and Mac mini. Fair comment. The nitty gritty of transcoding and subsystems (and VMs) cooperating with each other to anyone can run anything they like without vendor lock-in and forced obsolescence is a technical thing. For the vast majority of use cases there’s no real need to step away from. Here is the thing, you keep asking low level questions (or ones that can only be answered in a low level way because of what RISC-V actually is), and then get seemingly upset when we answer that way. We first noticed Micro Magic’s claims earlier this week, when EE Times reported on the company’s new prototype CPU, which appears to be the fastest RISC-V CPU in the world. Later the same week, Micro Magic announced the same CPU could produce over 8,000 CoreMarks at 3GHz while consuming only 69mW of power. New RISC-V CPU claims recordbreaking performance per watt Micro Magic's new CPU offers decent performance with record-breaking efficiency. So am I, but times change. Then we had the Fahrenheit scandal where Microsoft punked SGI and then went on to use their monopoly to force Direct3D on the world as well as use their position to push into console gaming and the cloud (while not releasing OS which gave basic users and businesses the capability to host their own local cloud). The Micro Magic CPU is, for the moment, single-core and single-threaded—although Huang says it could "easily" be built as a 25-core part. (In some cases CPU was actually faster than the hardware renderer due to the technology of the time. Micro Magic's new CPU prototype is seen right here working on an Odroid board. Implementations are potentially going to vary within a single semiconductor company, and this is what we want. o New Xe graphics with up to 96 execution units (EUs) with significant performance-per-watt efficiency improvements. The x86 memory model is more strict and emulating it in software is inefficient. But there isn’t a specific standard so that peripherals all work the same, or have the same memory addresses, etc for a microcontroller. Oops. For the M1, apple chose to implement x86 memory model in hardware rather than in software to avoid certain implied inefficiencies of software overhead. To put that in perspective, last year’s Snapdragon 865 with the 5th gen AI Engine featured 15 … I’m bothered about the general purpose baseline versus the use case specific implementation issues. In 2004, it was reborn under its original name by the original founders—Mark Santoro and Lee Tavrow, who originally worked at Sun and led the team that developed the 300MHz SPARC microprocessor. An open and competitive architecture won’t happen unless there is this involvement. RISC-V endorsed the Wishbone bus for systems on a chip but vendors aren’t required to use it. The material on this site may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, cached or otherwise used, except with the prior written permission of Condé Nast. Ars Technica ... Micro Magic's new CPU offers decent performance with record-breaking efficiency. What the Chinese are up to at a hardware level is a response but I’m fearing the Chinese are basically taking an open system and (like NVidia who are ten times worse than AMD/ATI ever were) are effectively closing it in practice. This concerns me a great deal because while x86 has kind of been grandfathered in as a platform where FOSS can thrive, for most new devices coming out we aren’t so fortunate and very often we’re forced to hack into our own devices for the right to run independent software. At roughly a quarter the performance of world-leading x86 and ARM mobile processors, the Micro Magic CPU doesn't sound like much yet. There is flexibility but this contains gotchas. Everyone has their opinions and musings. In addition to building the operating system itself—not just the kernel, but drivers for all hardware from GPU to Wi-Fi to LTE modem, and more—third-party app developers would need to recompile their own applications for the new architecture as well. This is extremely crude, and I caution readers not to rely too much on comparing the M1's efficiency to the Swift 3's on these numbers alone—but it's good enough to get some perspective on Micro Magic's claim for its new RISC-V (pronounced "risk five") CPU. With that said, it's worth pointing out that—if we take Micro Magic's numbers for granted—they're already beating the performance of some solid mobile phone CPUs. Apple specifically needed backwards compatibility in order to run their customer’s proprietary mac software, but not everyone is as tied down to x86 software compatibility. The Embedded Microprocessor Benchmark Consortium (EMBC) is a group with wide industry representation: Intel, Texas Instruments, ARM, Realtek, and Nokia are a few of its more notable and easily recognizable members. For example: We would do the same if we were in their shoes. The 2020 MacBook Air is also powered by Apple's new M1 processor which are Arm-based CPUs. Micro Magic was originally founded in 1995 and was purchased by Juniper Networks for $260 million. Still, this is an exciting development. The main problem at the abstract level is core versus extended functionality. I have some major reservations about all of these claims, mostly because of the lack of benchmarks that more accurately track real-world usage. In other words, Micro Magic's prototype CPU is both significantly faster and tremendously more power-efficient than a reasonably modern and still very capable smartphone CPU. Don’t beat yourself up, the M1 did well in some benchmarks and poorly in others. I was just adding my own opinion. Performance per watt refers to the ratio of peak CPU performance to average power consumed using select industry standard benchmarks. This can be annoying when you try to have an objective conversation, but that is human nature I suppose, haha. Once you get to the FAB you are so caught up in proprietary processes you simply can’t be as open as you want (If I am reading you correctly), and if there were more restrictions placed on it then you wouldn’t see as many private companies adopting RISC-V so quickly (for example Western Digital). I still have an Apple M1 Mac Mini on hand, as well as a Ryzen 7 4700U-powered Acer Swift 3, so those were my test systems for comparison. New RISC-V CPU Claims Recordbreaking Performance Per Watt 1 min read December 4, 2020 Hmmmmmm shares a report from Ars Technica: Micro Magic Inc. — a small electronic design firm in Sunnyvale, California — has produced a prototype CPU that is several times more efficient than world-leading competitors, while retaining reasonable raw performance . I’m a bit sceptical of RISC-V as it seems more of an American thing and wonder if pushing RISC-V is less about technical and equity issues and more about who ultimately controls and influences the CPU platform. I lament that this did not happen with ARM and for better or worse this leaves x86 (with all of it’s problems) as the friendliest FOSS platform to date. Let's take a wide look at the CPU landscape in 2020, and then get down and dirty with each of the major chip families. RISC-V doesn’t concern itself with operating system interoperability but to dictate that would be to limit implentors. New RISC-V CPU claims recordbreaking performance per watt. Interesting once the cost target was reached in printed SolarPV it hasn’t supplanted traditional silicon as first thought, but it’s become supplemental. I’d really like to see RISC become the platform of choice for FOSS, but we’ve got a bit of a catch-22: we need manufacturers to make these products viable, yet all too often when they do it comes will strings attached, proprietary blobs, and owner restrictions. The RISC-V ISA—unlike x86, ARM, and even MIPS—is open and provided under royalty-free licenses. When we look back at the single‑threaded performance of low‑power silicon in the Mac, gains in performance per watt have been very small from one chip to the next. Micro Magic's new CPU prototype is seen here running on an Odroid board. ... promising that the M1 will offer the world's best CPU performance per watt. I’ve been involved on a bit of this stuff for the printed SolarPV, in that sector the target is $1/m² but the cost of what you can do in that square meter doesn’t rise proportionally with the density of devices on the film. Join the Ars Orbital Transmission mailing list to get weekly updates delivered to your inbox. Better yet, the company itself isn't an unknown. If it’s something people can run with at some point I’m sure they will pipe up. Part of the difficulty in evaluating Micro Magic's claim for its new CPU lies in figuring out just what a CoreMark is and how many of them are needed to make a fast CPU. This means that a RISC-V CPU can be anything from a microcontroller to a server grade CPU, and doesn’t have to implement the modules it doesn’t need. At it’s high end it’s as capable as those processors so it would have a decent use case in the same space as what you’d use Pi’s or Rock64 boards on. RISC-V doesn’t guarantee open implementations, that is up to implementors to decide. But is ... What is performance per watt? A lot of people only want to focus on the benmarks where it does well and ignore those where it is behind. Can they scale to more demanding uses? That's triple the efficiency of the Ryzen 4700u running single-threaded and a little better than par with it when the Ryzen's running an optimally multithreaded workload. It is indeed good advice to study the data and the rules behind what generated the data.